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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 30, 2010 6:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I think we need perspective?

Well, I can tell you, we all might be a bit jaded. IE, prior to 2005, prior to learning there were 600 of the bastards, I always consider M&MU a definitive DEAD tune.

Those folks I often mentioned debating the DEAD with? More than one said, and I quote: "Listen dumbass, M&MU is a great song, but DS?!? It's just noise"

It was ALWAYS a tune I used on "hits to win over newbies" and such.

Anyhow, I do agree NOW, but before I'd heard so many, it was a fav. So, we may be jaded.

Last, the M&MU's out of OOnes in fall of 71 are to die for, back in the day, and even yesterday, frankly.

I always loved that pairing.

That's my pitch--or are you saying you ALWAYS hated the cowboy tunes?

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Nov 30, 2010 8:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I think we need perspective?

>the M&MU's out of OOnes in fall of 71 are to die for, back in the day, and even yesterday, frankly.

Absolutely. It seems like a weird pairing on the face of it, except that those early MAMUs just had so much intensity -- it really works brilliantly.

Btw, agree on that other point too -- I've certainly heard way more MAMUs in the last few years than I ever did "back in the day." Silly me, I actually thought it was some kind of huge treat to hear a MAMU. Wow! Lucky again!!! Amazing :-)

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Nov 30, 2010 4:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I think we need perspective?

Just so long as it doesn't bother you that it was written in a drunken stupor by John Phillips of the Mommas & Poppas.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 30, 2010 8:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I think we need perspective?

Yup--I did as well! I recall the really fast one in Jun 75 when he uses the alt verses we spoke of sometime back ("...cracked him in the jaw..." or whatever) and thinking "whoaaa! better than a StSt!"...well, okay...but almost).

And, I am really serious about how many nonDEAD friends did tell me more than once that it was a great tune, along with UJBand, and a few others, but that I could take the jam songs and stuff them.

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Poster: snori Date: Nov 30, 2010 8:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I think we need perspective?

While the only one I personally dislike is El Paso my problem with the others is that they just don't fill the gap left by Pigpen's (short) offerings eg Next Time, The Rub etc. If someone had been able to continue with those songs we wouldn't have had Mamu, BR, Mexicala so often.

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Poster: Capt. Cook Date: Nov 30, 2010 8:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I think we need perspective?

I much prefer the Me & Bobby McGee inside The Other One as done in these excellent shows:

http://www.archive.org/details/gd72-05-03.sbd.masse.142.sbeok.shnf

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1972-09-28.110020.sbd.BEAR.gem.flac16

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Nov 30, 2010 7:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I think we need perspective?

Yes, I agree with your assessment - these are all great tunes, they just got played to death. MAMU - over 600, El Paso - 388, Mexicali - 435, Big River - 397. None of them lend themselves to improvisation... and it feels like over time, they actually got bored playing them. (some desultory vocals from BW in the 80s) Earlier 70s versions are more entertaining for me. Really like Garcia pouring out notes on MAMA and El Paso, and Big River really builds to a great crescendo, especially with Keith on keys. There's just nothing distinctive that makes these tunes remarkable over time. Yep, we're a picky bunch.

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Poster: duckpond74 Date: Nov 30, 2010 11:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I think we need perspective?

"... Big River - 397. None of them lend themselves to improvisation... "

I beg to differ here, offering the fantastic 6-16-74 Des Moines Eyes > Big River as an example of how they took the Big River groove and cooked it to perfection for several minutes, making that segue one of the most unusual, head-scratchin', hard dancin', musically inspired improvisations the band turned out - and it was tight ta' boot!

Overplayed, yes, but none of those cowboy songs mentioned were ever so dreaded as ending a wonderful show with the IMHO overplayed -to-a-cliche' One More Saturday Night. I saw the first two performances of Saturday Night and loved this new Bob tune - quirky guitar intro and a key change. But even by the late 70's, it's prime place as the almost obligatory second set closer or encore to so many shows i attended was dreaded each time after hearing those first 5 notes. It was this 'predictability' with the band that i loved for it's 'unpredictability' that turned me off on the tune. Maybe it was the onset of the 'Bobby as rock star' that drove those nails in . . . funny, though, i never felt that way about Sugar Magnolia even up to and including 7-2-95.

I guess over time, seeing Bob the quirky young singer with the Northern California accent turn into Bob the screamer with the 'I am a rock star (aren't I?) antics, was just a disappointment for me. And for the record, I do appreciate some of Bob's current vocals, as in Further doing Ripple in Denver earlier this year (3-6-10). Different Strokes . . .

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Nov 30, 2010 12:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I think we need perspective?

Caught me with an excellent Big River - guilty of over-generalizing. But you have to admit, that's an exceptional one, although I think Big River usually cooked pretty nicely.

I think we're on the same page regarding predictability - I like all the cowboy tunes, but dislike hearing them so often, and when they're played to lackluster result. Even Sugar Mag/Sunshine Daydream gets old.

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Poster: BVD Date: Nov 30, 2010 6:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I think we need perspective?

Dig the cowboy tunes except Mex Blues. Yes, TOO>MAMU>TOO are killer. One of my favorite pieces of music is from 8/1/73--DS>EL PASO>EYES>DEW

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 30, 2010 7:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I think we need perspective?

Perspective? I think you have the wrong forum, sir.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 30, 2010 7:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I think we need perspective?

True; I should've said "we all need to come around to MY perspective or we'll just go around and around on this"

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Poster: portmcgroin Date: Nov 30, 2010 7:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I think we need perspective?

Space travel to wild west again?

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 30, 2010 8:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I think we need perspective?

Spoken like a true forumite.